Session Start: Mon Jul 29 00:00:00 2013 Session Ident: #glitchpc [00:00] * Now talking in #glitchpc
[00:00] * Topic is 'Welcome to #glitchpc chat. Profanity, trolls, and impersonation are not welcome here. Street1 has become a Silent Keyboard. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/savannah/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=139870551'
[00:00] * Set by jacky on Tue Mar 02 11:03:23
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[01:26]<+Craig> hahahahaah
[01:27]<+Craig> Its a software limitation/hardware limitation by setting correct?
[01:27]<+Craig> (Or build)
[01:27]<@BC_Programming> Starting with Pentium Pro the processors have a 36-bit address bus, the only limitations would be with the actual amount the motherboard can hold or in the software
[01:28]<+Craig> Right, :P
[01:28]<@BC_Programming> in the case of 32-bit versions of Vista, 7, and 8, it's actually something MS purposely restricts for no particularly good reason
[01:28]<+Craig> Stupid ms...
[01:28]<@BC_Programming> At least in the consumer versions... strangely the 32-bit versions of the server editions breaks those rules
[01:29]<+Craig> I mean linux and multiple TB of ram, come on, what is stopping MS?
[01:29]<+Craig> :P
[01:29]<@BC_Programming> OTOH It kinda makes sense to encourage 64-bit since otherwise people could be wasting half their computer's instruction set
[01:30]<+Craig> Hahahahaha
[01:30]<+Craig> :P
[01:31]<+Craig> So what is a good analagy for consumers to explain 32bit vs 64bit
[01:31]<+Craig> the best I could do was complexity. :P
[01:31]<+Craig> and even then I still am not sure.
[01:32]<+Craig> Most linux has been 64bit since AMD went 64
[01:32]<@BC_Programming> software wise I would say that running a 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware like driving a fancy car but removing all the amenities
[01:32]<+Craig> hahahahahah
[01:32]<+Tux2> It's like going from a 2 lane road to a 4 lane road
[01:32]<+Craig> Is it really though? I mean thats more multi core and such
[01:33]<@BC_Programming> Craig: 64-bit instructions can and do process twice as much data though, which I think is the idea
[01:33]<@BC_Programming> I do know that analogy held firm for the 16-bit to 32-bit stuff
[01:34]<+Craig> But I mean, 32 to 64 bit is more than just pure data thoroughput isnt it? I mean the difference is in the complexity of the actual data, 32bit doesnt go through 64bit processors that much faster, its when you jump to 64bit software that you see a difference isn't it?
[01:34]<@BC_Programming> 32-bit instructions don't run faster no
[01:34]<@BC_Programming> that's why you need 64-bit software
[01:34]<@BC_Programming> HOWEVER if you run a 64-bit OS the emulation layer can use 64-bit instructions
[01:34]<+Tux2> Yup, exactly, you're still only using 2 lanes of that 4 lane road
[01:34]<+Craig> See thats what I am saying, what is the real difference?
[01:35]<+Craig> HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
[01:35]<+Craig> Right but the emulation layer takes up cpu time, and in the end will probably pass it off as 32bit
[01:35]<@BC_Programming> The CPU supports 32-bit Virtualization in a 64-bit mode
[01:36]<@BC_Programming> (my inaccuracy was saying emulator)
[01:36]<+Craig> Heheheh :P
[01:36]<@BC_Programming> IA-64 required an emulator so 32-bit stuffs went slower on it
[01:36]<@BC_Programming> AMD's variant which is now of course de juere still executed 32-bit software natively
[01:36]<+Craig> So in a Virtualized Enviroment, your telling me that the Windows xp 32 I have installed *runs* in 64bit mode sorta?
[01:36]<@BC_Programming> No
[01:37]<+Craig> So it still passes through the buss in 32then?
[01:37]<+Craig> bus*
[01:37]<@BC_Programming> The OS has to support 64-bit mode and keep the system in native 64-bit mode
[01:38]<@BC_Programming> My point was, in terms of windows, if you run 64-bit, you already start with an advantage, since all the build-in software is 64-bit executables- Explorer, Winlogon, etc. If you want to run 32-bit software you still can without any speed penalty, but you can also run 64-bit equivalents where they exist, and those 64-bit versions can use your 64-bit instructions
[01:38]<+Craig> Hahahaha, this is our first truly nerdy conversation since a LONG time. :P
[01:38]<@BC_Programming> whereas with a 32-bit Windows OS you cannot run any 64-bit Applications even if you have a 64-bit processor, because the OS boots into 32-bit Protected mode
[01:39]<+Craig> Right, that makes sense, so there is no advantage untill people program or atleast compile in 64bit.
[01:39]<@BC_Programming> The advantage is that all the OS components are 64-bit
[01:40]<+Craig> Well, atleast with Linux if you do 64Bit, they give you everything 64Bit, windows, they still use a lot of 32bit...
[01:40]<@BC_Programming> Craig: nope
[01:40]<@BC_Programming> the 32-bit stuff is still present but it's only provided for compatibility in case something else needs to use it
[01:40]<@BC_Programming> mostly of course 32-bit Windows programs
[01:40]<+Craig> For example the default Chrome and IE, are both 32bit,
[01:41]<+Craig> thats what I am meaning.
[01:41]<@BC_Programming> That's because Adobe has been dragging their feet with any 64-bit versions of their plugin
[01:42]<@BC_Programming> Of course with 64-bit you have the <option> of running 64-bit software; if you chose a 32-bit Windows OS and later wanted to run a 64-bit program, you'd have to do a clean install
[01:42]<+Craig> Heh, this is true
[01:42]<@BC_Programming> Also most Java and .NET Apps can instantly benefit from 64-bit too :D
[01:42]<+Craig> Yay for HTML5
[01:43]<+Craig> gets rid of most of the flash issues for Youtube.
[01:43]<@BC_Programming> Youtube blows up my firefox
[01:44]<@BC_Programming> or rather it seems to work only randomly
[01:44]<@BC_Programming> half the time it plays, the other half it's all "this plugin is disabled"
[01:45]<+Craig> Thats because of Youtube not enabling Advertisements on Youtube videos in HTML5, then you actually need the flash plugin.
[01:45]<+Craig> I researched it the other day... :(
[01:45]<@BC_Programming> oh that makes sense
[01:45]<@BC_Programming> as in it explains why... it doesn't really make sense that they would do that
[01:46]<+Craig> Yeah, I don't know why they don't enable it, but its Google, money is their key for making things happen....
[01:48]<@BC_Programming> It's funny because there are so many people that seem to inherently trust Google...
[01:49]<@BC_Programming> How can you trust a company who's main source of revenue is advertising
[01:50]<+Craig> hahahah tooo true.
[01:50]<+Craig> Anyway on these notes, I must retire to bed.
[01:50]<+Craig> Night all.
[01:51]<+Tux2> night, same here
[01:51]<@BC_Programming> night both :)
[01:55]<+Craig> Hey BC, take a look, leave me a message if you have any ideas.... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151752120481001&set=a.10151752120381001.1073741828.515341000&type=1&ref=nf
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[05:57]<jamer> BC_Programming its a goal of mine to get a better computer XD
[05:57]<jamer> Ksp just hates intel gpu's
[05:58]<@BC_Programming> Anything sane hates Intel Graphics Chips
[05:58]<@BC_Programming> they don't even implement OpenGL properly
[05:58]<jamer> Nope ... im at opengl 1.4
[05:59]<@BC_Programming> I said they don't implement OpenGL properly. That means they don't implement it properly. It doesn't mean they don't claim to implement it properly
[05:59]<@BC_Programming> basically the Driver Says "YEAH, I totally support all 1.4 features"
[05:59]<@BC_Programming> but it doesn't support certain shader features
[06:00]<jamer> I was agreeing with you :p
[06:00]<@BC_Programming> what was the version relevance then :/
[06:00]<jamer> Alot of stuff runs opengl 3.0 now XD
[06:01]<jamer> Starmade space engine and a couple other programs
[06:02]<@BC_Programming> Star made is OGL 2
[06:02]<jamer> O.o but even still
[06:03]<jamer> Ifi ever wanted to play them I have to get the family laptop out and install the games on it
[06:07]<+camerongray> I still love the influx of people in CH at the moment trying to turn crappy old machines like Dimension 2400s into gaming machines
[06:07]<jamer> Its sad
[06:07]<@BC_Programming> I have a 4400 5500FX makes it viable for some games
[06:08]<+camerongray> Problem is when you get people helping saying - "Get this PCI Graphics card, throw in a P4-HT, upgrade the PSU and add more RAM"
[06:08]<+camerongray> What they should say is "Sell it and get something better"
[06:08]<@BC_Programming> oh haha DaveLembke?
[06:08]<+camerongray> Nah, in chat
[06:08]<@BC_Programming> oh because that is almost exactly what was being recommended by Dave in a forum thread I saw lol
[06:08]<jamer> A p4-ht isnt even worth it ...
[06:09]<@BC_Programming> hmm I sure hope that was a tea leaf Iswallowed
[06:10]<@BC_Programming> oh wow... my laptop only does OGL 1.1
[06:10]<+camerongray> Hmm, that's interesting - Log into my router over Telnet:
[06:10]<+camerongray> jan/03/1970 22:29:57 system,error,critical login failure for user root from 199.195.212.145 via ssh
[06:10]<+camerongray> jan/03/1970 22:29:58 system,error,critical login failure for user root from 199.195.212.145 via ssh
[06:10]<+camerongray> jan/03/1970 22:29:59 system,error,critical login failure for user root from 199.195.212.145 via ssh
[06:10]<+camerongray> jan/03/1970 22:30:00 system,error,critical login failure for user root from 199.195.212.145 via ssh
[06:10]<+camerongray> jan/03/1970 22:30:02 system,error,critical login failure for user root from 199.195.212.145 via ssh
[06:10]<+camerongray> jan/03/1970 22:30:03 system,error,critical login failure for user root from 199.195.212.145 via ssh
[06:10]<+camerongray> jan/03/1970 22:30:04 system,error,critical login failure for user root from 199.195.212.145 via ssh
[06:10]<jamer> I used to own a p4 ht and there isnt much difference performance difference
[06:10]<@BC_Programming> oh it;s using the generic driver that's why
[06:10]<+camerongray> My granny still uses one, slow as anything!
[06:11]<+camerongray> She moved ISP so I went to set her up a new email account, no joking, took 30 mins to boot and open firefox
[06:11]<jamer> I gave mine away ... XD
[06:11]<@BC_Programming> my 4400 still works well
[06:11]<@BC_Programming> And that is a single core P4 without HT
[06:11]<+camerongray> Trying to convince her to get a new one - Now has a 60mbps broadband service, machine can't keep up!
[06:12]<jamer> Lol
[06:12]<+camerongray> Oh yeah, forgot my router can do this: http://82.46.237.219/graphs/
[06:12]<+camerongray> Pretty cool :P
[06:13]<jamer> Nice
[06:13]<+camerongray> Handy to check who's in the flat based on if there are any packets coming from their devices
[06:13]<+camerongray> Since they all have smartphones that are always connected to it when they are in
[06:13]<@BC_Programming> Toshiba apparently doesn't think my laptop exists
[06:14]<@BC_Programming> Satellite L300-04N isn't listed
[06:14]<jamer> O.o
[06:15]<+camerongray> Hmm, odd
[06:17]<@BC_Programming> oh come on
[06:17]<@BC_Programming> even my 440CDX shows up in the listing lol
[06:18]<+camerongray> lol
[06:18]<+camerongray> I found my Armada m700 makes a great doorstop!
[06:19]<+camerongray> Stupid fire regulations mean that since the flat is shared between people, all doors have to have automatic closers on them which is really daft when you are trying to carry stuff between rooms!
[06:19]<+camerongray> And a normal door stop just slides over the floor!
[06:20]<+camerongray> But when my apple-fanboy friend comes round, I'll be sure to swap the armada with a mac :P
[06:20]<@BC_Programming> "Hey I found a way to work Apple products into my workflow"
[06:21]<@BC_Programming> "See I found this door kept closing on me, which caused problems. But Apple to the rescue! With this macbook, I was able to keep the door open! Just another way Apple opens doors for today's busy tech lifestyle
[06:21]<+camerongray> lol!
[06:21]<+camerongray> Knowing apple though the rubber feet will be too slippy
[06:22]<@BC_Programming> "you're holding it wrong"
[06:22]<+camerongray> My main issue is forgetting the closers, getting up at night and just leaving the door behind me *CRASH*
[06:23]<+camerongray> Found one of my favorite things about the flat though - My room has a massive wall!
[06:23]<+camerongray> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/1082675_719592671401209_954106888_n.jpg?oh=2fcf67de9b13ee480d1bcbbe1801afb1&oe=51F89170&__gda__=1375286236_43c8551cfb0939218544aa096bc3effe
[06:23]<+camerongray> 3m diagonal!
[06:23]<jamer> Cameron the fire doors here have a magnetic closers in case of fire
[06:24]<+camerongray> Yeah, that would be great, but these are just the type that always close the door - Would love it if they just slammed if the alarm went off
[06:24]<+camerongray> The result makes it worse from a safety perspective as people end up jamming doors open with tables and chairs which are easy to trip over :P
[06:25]<+camerongray> And I just bought a new projector (£52 on eBay :D)
[06:25]<jamer> Nice
[06:25]<+camerongray> The colours in that photo are accurate to what mine looks like in real life :P
[06:26]<jamer> I want to get one for movies in my room
[06:27]<+camerongray> Yeah, it's great
[06:27]<+camerongray> I just thought I'd see what it was like - Answer, AMAZING!
[06:27]<+camerongray> And my uncle gave me his old 5.1 surround system
[06:32]<@BC_Programming> I heard that a player landed some kerbals on the moon
[06:32]<@BC_Programming> I think it was staged man
[06:32]<@BC_Programming> on the mun*
[06:33]<+camerongray> I win for writing the most useless bit code ever!
[06:33]<+camerongray> $mep_entry_ids = array();
[06:33]<+camerongray> foreach ($database_response->result() as $entry)
[06:33]<+camerongray> {
[06:33]<+camerongray> array_push($mep_entry_ids, $entry);
[06:33]<+camerongray> }
[06:34]<@BC_Programming> well of course, that's PHP
[06:34]<+camerongray> heheeh
[06:34]<@BC_Programming> I run PHP on 500,000 computers in the office
[06:35]<+camerongray> Literally the most complex way of doing $mep_entry_ids = $database_respsonse->result();
[06:35]<+camerongray> hahaha!
[06:35]<@BC_Programming> on Inspirons
[06:35]<+camerongray> I meant to have array_push($mep_entry_ids, $entry->mep_entry_id);
[06:36]<jamer> So in ksp someone figured out how to make new planets and stars
[06:37]<@BC_Programming> there are already a lot
[06:37]<jamer> He made like 22 more celestial bodies
[06:37]<@BC_Programming> make a "Jool Station" heh
[06:39]<jamer> And yes that includes another star system to fly to
[07:37]<jamer> I wosh there was multiplayer on ksp
[07:43]<@BC_Programming> would be cool if you could "build" bases, as in be able to build and launch stuff from other terrestial bodies
[08:38]<jamer> Theres a mod that can do that BC_Programming
[08:39]<@BC_Programming> I don't give a crap about mods... There are probably mods to make the kerbals naked or something too
[08:39]<@BC_Programming> I meant in the vanilla game as part of vanilla gameplay
[08:44]<jamer> Ah
[08:45]<@BC_Programming> Like you would have to bring a certain number of parts, land them, etc
[08:45]<@BC_Programming> then you could build a space-base
[08:45]<@BC_Programming> so there would be a lot of work involved to get setup somewhere, but once you are you can launch new missions from it
[08:45]<@BC_Programming> eg. setup a base on Duna and missions to Ike are easier type deal
[08:46]<jamer> If you dev'd the game it would probably be alot better than what it is now
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[09:29]<+Tux2> I'm getting frustrated by my bukkit dev approver mentor
[09:31]<@BC_Programming> why
[09:31]<+Tux2> T 1374975705 <chaseoes> I'd like you to claim the next 9, all at once.
[09:31]<+Tux2> T 1374975747 <Tux2> all at once? okay
[09:31]<+Tux2> T 1374975772 <chaseoes> Since you're using Chekkit it should download all of them for you
[09:31]<+Tux2> T 1374975790 <chaseoes> If you want you can wait until all of them are finished downloading/decompiling
[09:31]<+Tux2> T 1374975916 <chaseoes> If you have to leave or something before you can get through them all it's no big deal, I can do them. Feel free to take breaks if needed.
[09:31]<+Tux2> T 1374975952 <Tux2> gotcha
[09:31]<+Tux2> T 1374975954 <chaseoes> As you do each file post it's name and your result here
[09:31]<+Tux2> T 1374975961 <chaseoes> And feel free to ask questions
[09:32]<@BC_Programming> oh wow he's so nice to give you permission to take breaks! :/
[09:32]<+Tux2> So I go through about 5 files and he still hasn't even told me to approve one...
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374977135 <Tux2> http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/mirespawn/files/1-mirespawn-v1-0/ <--- Approved
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374977141 <Tux2> just waiting confirmation
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374977248 <chaseoes> Keep working on the other files
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374978154 <Tux2> http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/compassex/files/22-compass-ex-3-1-0/ <--- approved
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374978168 <Tux2> Now, I'm not actually approving them until you say so
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374979104 <Tux2> http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/iauction/files/33-auction-5-0-6/ <--- approved
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374980475 <Tux2> http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/miconomy/files/2-miconomy-v1-1/ <--- approved
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374980698 <Tux2> http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/ftbhelper/files/2-ftbhelper-v1-1/ <--- approved
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374981320 <Tux2> Okay, this file includes the class files twice, should I flag it as reason "delete" for containing useless files? http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/stables/files/34-stables-1-8-3-1/
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374981404 <Tux2> Other than that I would approve it
[09:33]<+Tux2> T 1374981428 <chaseoes> If you want
[09:33]<+Tux2> He responds to all my questions, yet when it comes to actually approving the file, it's like he was dragging his feet
[09:34]<@BC_Programming> well if he says you can then he'll get the blame if there is anything wrong
[09:34]<@BC_Programming> so it's easier just to pretend the responsibility is somebody elses
[09:36]<+Tux2> lol, well, he has to approve every single one of the files I do
[09:36]<@BC_Programming> ahhh
[09:37]<+Tux2> So I actually feel like my mentor is dragging me down
[09:37]<@BC_Programming> you probably have a better idea what you are doing anyway
[09:38]<+Tux2> lol, right? I even questioned my mentor on something and actually won
[09:38]<+Tux2> It was on a file that did this:
[09:39]<+Tux2> if(config.getBoolean("updatecheck") && Update.hasUpdate())
[09:39]<+Tux2> Of course a plugin can't check for updates before checking the variable
[09:40]<+Tux2> but he was saying it was checking for updates anyways
[09:40]<@BC_Programming> yeah the method won't be called if the getBoolean() is false
[09:40]<@BC_Programming> that's basic understanding of Java IMO
[09:40]<+Tux2> lol, right
[09:40]<+Tux2> now if it was this: if(config.getBoolean("updatecheck") & Update.hasUpdate())
[09:40]<+Tux2> then it would need to be deniied
[09:41]<+Tux2> so I basically had to link to several pages proving my point
[09:42]<+Tux2> I don't think he liked that...
[09:43]<@BC_Programming> maybe he needs to learn himself some Java lol
[09:44]<+Tux2> lol, right?
[09:44]<+Tux2> I don't know what it is, but when it comes to questions, he's on them, when it comes to actually looking over files, he drags his feet
[09:45]<+Tux2> Maybe he's just the slowest approver ever, but if I can get 6 plugins done in the time, that's saying something
[09:47]<+Tux2> He came to me that night, so I was going full tilt, getting them knocked out
[09:47]<+Tux2> It wasn't like I came to him asking him to approve them
[09:48]<@BC_Programming> yeah
[09:49]<+Tux2> Even if he was to let me know about 1, I would have been fine with it
[09:51]<+Tux2> So yeah, that's why I feel he's dragging me down.
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[12:00]<+camerongray> Hey jamer
[12:00]<+camerongray> Damnit!
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[12:48]<@Mulreay> Whadup ma nerdizzles
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[13:49]<+Craig> Hey Mulreay, Tux, and BC
[13:49]<@Mulreay> hey Craig
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[13:49]<+Craig> How goes it?
[13:53]<+Tux2> Hey Craig
[13:53]<+Craig> Hey Tux, how goes it?
[13:54]<+Tux2> Doing good
[14:05]<@Mulreay> If anyone is bored http://cat-bounce.com/
[14:06]<+Craig> Wow, I would really, REALLY need to be bored, :P
[14:07]<@Mulreay> Then you would be in my world :p
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[14:57]<jamer> Camerongrey hi
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[15:41]<jamer> BC_Programming http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/35217-0-20-x-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v2-New-GUI-Stock-Kethane-compatible
[15:41]<jamer> thats the mod im thinking of
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[18:29]<jamer> parachute time for my space plane
[21:39]<+Tux2> Hey BC_Programming
[21:39]<@BC_Programming> hai
[21:40]<+Tux2> lol, it's been about 2 hours since I started telling my mentor file status approvals/deletes
[21:40]<@BC_Programming> how's things with Mr. Slow approver
[21:40]<@BC_Programming> heh
[21:40]<+Tux2> Still no "go ahead and approve/delete"
[21:42]<+Tux2> also, here's the latest in plugin goofs: http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/itemtrader/files/1-itemtrader-0-1/
[21:42]<@BC_Programming> lol what a helpful description
[21:43]<+Tux2> lol, download the file and open it up in jd-gui
[21:44]<+Tux2> He shaded in like 3 libraries AND an entire plugin into the jar
[21:45]<@BC_Programming> tssk tssk
[21:49]<+Tux2> BC_Programming: yes, the MySQL implementation in GP was forced
[21:49]<@BC_Programming> yeah that's what I thought
[21:50]<@BC_Programming> I was testing it a bit for some reported stuff, and I have like 50 claims and there was a noticable few seconds for every claim action and I was like wut
[21:52]<+Tux2> lol, yeah, the mysql isn't very efficient
[21:54]<@BC_Programming> kinda wanna make it so that the cfg has the option of which implementation to use, then different databases or other storage types could be added with different dataStores
[21:54]<@BC_Programming> rather than having things like Postgres shoehorned into the MySQL stuff
[22:14]<+Tux2> yeah
[22:14]<+Tux2> Also, instead of having a old mysql and new, auto convert any old databases to the new database format and delete the old tables
[22:15]<@BC_Programming> well if it is separated there could be a generic migration capability to go between any two datastore implementations
[22:15]<+Tux2> Yeah, but keep the other one as a legacy/unsupported/auto migrated when sensed
[22:16]<@BC_Programming> "generic" would also mean it could convert back to flat files too :D
[22:16]<+Tux2> ;) Yup :)
[22:16]<+Tux2> lol, wow, my mentor still hasn't gotten back to me...
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