Session Start: Sun Oct 09 00:00:00 2011 Session Ident: #glitchpc [00:00] * Now talking in #glitchpc
[00:00] * Topic is 'Welcome to #glitchpc chat. Profanity, trolls, and impersonation are not welcome here. Street1 has become a Silent Keyboard. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/savannah/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=139870551'
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Session Start: Sun Oct 09 03:05:08 2011 Session Ident: #glitchpc [03:05] * Now talking in #glitchpc
[03:05] * Topic is 'Welcome to #glitchpc chat. Profanity, trolls, and impersonation are not welcome here. Street1 has become a Silent Keyboard. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/savannah/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=139870551'
[03:05] * Set by jacky on Tue Mar 02 11:03:23
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[09:44]<arun02540> hi
[09:44]<arun02540> help
[09:44]<mib_g83fq7> hey
[09:45]<@BC_Programming> greetings
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[09:47]<@jacky> BC_Programming: you scared him!!
[09:47]<@jacky> <g>
[09:48]<@BC_Programming> I have that effect
[09:48]<@jacky> heh
[09:48]<@jacky> BC_Programming: over in #codingcafe mib_g83fq7 had a question.... something about interfaces and as3
[09:48]<@jacky> is that your forte`
[09:48]<@jacky> ?
[09:49]<@BC_Programming> no
[09:49]<@BC_Programming> probably not
[09:49]<@jacky> ok
[09:51]<mib_g83fq7> that was me
[09:51]<mib_g83fq7> it's simple, i'm new to the whole thing
[09:52]<mib_g83fq7> well, i'm assuming it's simple and i just don't understand yet
[09:52]<mib_g83fq7> let me know if anybody can help
[09:53]<@BC_Programming> you've not presented your problem...
[09:53]<mib_g83fq7> oh, because you said probably not
[09:53]<mib_g83fq7> it's just that I'm reading about design patterns and how I'm supposed to program to the interface and not the implementation
[09:54]<mib_g83fq7> and I was trying it out when I realized that if I do that I won't be able to access any of the class' other functions
[09:54]<@BC_Programming> OK... here
[09:54]<@BC_Programming> s the thing with interfaces
[09:55]<@BC_Programming> unless you happen to know that you are going to have several implementations, you generally don't need them
[09:56]<@BC_Programming> for example, in my game I access my sound "driver" classes via an interface, because that way I just need to write a new class that implements the interface if I want to add support for another sound library
[09:57]<mib_g83fq7> i see
[09:57]<@BC_Programming> generally separating interface from implementation isn't a high priority, the important thing is knowing when it's a good idea to do so beforehand, so you can design with that in mind
[09:57]<mib_g83fq7> well really this came about because I was trying out the factory pattern, so basically I should only be using the factory pattern if I know I'll need several different kinds of products?
[09:58]<@BC_Programming> is the "factory pattern" when you have a static function that returns the class instances?
[09:59]<mib_g83fq7> yea basically
[09:59]<@BC_Programming> yeah just looked it up, that pretty much is for when you know that you'll have multiple implementationsm and need to be able to use them
[09:59]<mib_g83fq7> and I would have all the products implementing IProduct
[10:00]<mib_g83fq7> so what if I want one of those products to have functions that aren't in their interface at all
[10:01]<@BC_Programming> you can do that, but you won't be able to call t hose functions if the reference you have is the interface type
[10:01]<mib_g83fq7> exactly, but aren't I supposed to use the interface type
[10:02]<@BC_Programming> well no see if you need to have a method/property accessed that isn't part of the interface, it either should be part of the interface, or you shouldn't be using a interface at all
[10:02]<mib_g83fq7> oh I see
[10:02]<mib_g83fq7> I guess this is an issue of knowing when to use which patterns or not at all
[10:03]<@BC_Programming> another way to look at it, also, is why use a interface, when you could have a Product class, and just derive other classes from Product as needed? that way your base Product class can have whatever functionality is necessary for all Products, and the derived classes only extend that
[10:03]<mib_g83fq7> that's true
[10:03]<@BC_Programming> typically, you don't look at a problem, and think "I can use XXX pattern" the idea if a pattern, is that it will basically crop up as the "ideal" solution to a problem on it's own
[10:04]<@BC_Programming> that is, it comes up time and time again, in many contexts- thus the term pattern
[10:04]<mib_g83fq7> I understand
[10:04]<@BC_Programming> For example, a lot of my programs use the concept of a singleton, which is a design pattern
[10:05]<@BC_Programming> but I didn't set out thinking "I'll use a singleton"
[10:05]<mib_g83fq7> right
[10:05]<@BC_Programming> I just ended up with it :P
[10:05]<mib_g83fq7> oh ok, I thought that I should just try to learn about a lot of the commonly used patterns and think about which might be useful ahead of time
[10:06]<@BC_Programming> it doesn't hurt, but then what ends up happening is you end up trying to shoehorn a pattern where it doesn't belong, your IProduct experiment being an example
[10:06]<mib_g83fq7> yea
[10:07]<mib_g83fq7> as time goes on I'll probably learn to spot where they can be the solution
[10:07]<@BC_Programming> I learned about design patterns, but I really only know a few off the top of my head, and I never even think about them when developing
[10:07]<mib_g83fq7> really
[10:08]<@BC_Programming> I just write what I need- if it happens to end up as a design pattern, that's just what I end up with
[10:09]<mib_g83fq7> what happened to me is that I was designing this game as my first real project some months ago and as I got deeper into it I realized that it was just becoming unwieldy
[10:09]<mib_g83fq7> hard for me to communicate between all the various classes
[10:09]<mib_g83fq7> so I thought I should read up about design patterns and that could help streamline things
[10:10]<@BC_Programming> ahh see, what you need to do is think
[10:10]<@BC_Programming> "why is it difficult for me to communicate between classes?" How can I make it easier" etc
[10:10]<@BC_Programming> for example, my game is basically a block breaker clone
[10:11]<@BC_Programming> each frame, the various parts interact with each other, and the main game thread calls them with most actions with a first parameter that is a reference to the singleton I described earlier, which holds all the game state
[10:11]<mib_g83fq7> ok
[10:11]<@BC_Programming> that means that the ball or the blocks can both change all sorts of stuff, create particles, etc, because they have that one object that gives them access to all the important stuff
[10:12]<@BC_Programming> without that one parameter, I pretty much would be stuck, balls couldn't see if they hit a block, blocks couldn't create new balls as a powerup, etc
[10:12]<mib_g83fq7> what kind of stuff do you put in the singleton? like score
[10:13]<@BC_Programming> let me correct myself though, it's not actually a singleton
[10:13]<@BC_Programming> because I'm passing it around, and very rarely there can be multiple instances
[10:13]<@BC_Programming> for all intents and purposes though, I treat it as one
[10:13]<@BC_Programming> and yes, it does hold the score
[10:13]<@BC_Programming> the game score, a reference to the PlayerPaddle, lists of Blocks, Balls, GameObjects, Particles, etc
[10:15]<mib_g83fq7> interesting. I think it's just hard for me to answer the question "how can I make it easier?" because I don't know what all my options are
[10:15]<@BC_Programming> ahh well that makes sense I suppose
[10:15]<mib_g83fq7> like I might not have thought of holding all important information in one place or some other solution to some other problem
[10:16]<mib_g83fq7> or even if I have thought of singletons or something similar I might not know what to keep in it, so on so forth
[10:17]<mib_g83fq7> do you have any advice on educating oneself
[10:17]<@BC_Programming> well you have to experiment- see what works and what doesn't over time, it's not really something you can figure out without experience, I don't think, start a lot of little projects, sometimes even rewrite your old stuff
[10:17]<@BC_Programming> and when you rewrite it, think "now, what issues did I encounter when I wrote that"
[10:19]<@BC_Programming> so you can work out the design flaws. Over time you learn to recognize the patterns and you will know where to apply certain designs, thus "design patterns" but while you can learn what design patterns are and how to use them, it's more difficult to just see a problem/program and know to use a certain design patter for it a lot of the time
[10:20]<mib_g83fq7> basically just keep trying to do many small programs and work your way up?
[10:21]<@BC_Programming> well I'm not sure, it's difficult to explain... that would obviously be one way
[10:22]<@BC_Programming> for example the aforementioned game I speak of is in fact a rewrite of an older version, and I improved on it when I originally wrote the various base classes and necessary designs based on the flaws I had constantly with the old one
[10:23]<mib_g83fq7> how much time passed since you first wrote it to the rewrite?
[10:24]<@BC_Programming> well the original was written in 2003/2004
[10:25]<@BC_Programming> so 6 years since I had written the original that I wrote the rewrite... in a new language as well, which helped
[10:25]<mib_g83fq7> how did you start out with programming if you don't mind me asking
[10:25]<@BC_Programming> batch files, than QBASIC, than Visual Basic, and now C# mostly
[10:26]<mib_g83fq7> did you go to school
[10:26]<@BC_Programming> to learn it? No
[10:26]<mib_g83fq7> just from reading and trying stuff out?
[10:26]<@BC_Programming> I already knew VB better than the teacher when I was taught it in school
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[10:27]<@BC_Programming> what happened specifically, is that I was given a copy of Visual Basic right before the summer holidays
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[10:27]<@BC_Programming> I read the programmer's guide, and other manuals cover to cover I have no idea how many times
[10:27]<@BC_Programming> and I decided to write a simple program
[10:27]<@BC_Programming> I believe it was a "color chooser" to select a colour and give the HTML colour code
[10:28]<mib_g83fq7> neat
[10:28]<mib_g83fq7> did you have any help or anyone to ask for advice?
[10:28]<@BC_Programming> nope
[10:28]<@BC_Programming> I didn't have the internet
[10:28]<@BC_Programming> it was just me, the books, my computer, and the online documentation
[10:29]<@BC_Programming> "online" being the help files
[10:29]<mib_g83fq7> I ask because I wonder if I've been going about this the right way you know
[10:30]<mib_g83fq7> sometimes I feel like I don't have a lot to show for all the time I've spent trying to do this on my own
[10:30]<@BC_Programming> you do though- you gain experience
[10:31]<@BC_Programming> for example that HTML colour code program I wrote? I've deleted it ages ago, but what I learned while creating it stayed with me
[10:32]<@BC_Programming> same with the game I developed straight after- the problem in that game being a lot of timing issues and stuff, which I tried to combat by thinking through my next game more thoroughly at the start, and so forth
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[10:34]<mib_g83fq7> what motivated you to keep going on your own
[10:34]<@BC_Programming> I'm not sure
[10:34]<@BC_Programming> I enjoyed it
[10:34]<@BC_Programming> and I did on a few occasions lose nearly everything I had worked on for years prior in hard drive crashes and stuff
[10:35]<@BC_Programming> but right away I would start writing the replacements
[10:35]<mib_g83fq7> what about it appeals to you
[10:35]<@BC_Programming> I don't think I would be able to tell you tbh
[10:36]<mib_g83fq7> maybe succeeding, or getting it all to come together in the end
[10:36]<@BC_Programming> I like being able to write code, and be able to interact with it; I like being able to step through my code and have "revelations" where I find I made a mistake or discover where I made a bad assumption.
[10:37]<@BC_Programming> I like being able to apply trigonometry and maths in the interest of making a game fun :D
[10:38]<@BC_Programming> being able to watch a game grow from nothing, to a basic engine, to a fully featured 2-D game with a built in level editor, and also being able to look at it and say "I made this"
[10:39]<mib_g83fq7> I think I've been chasing that feeling for a long time now
[10:39]<mib_g83fq7> a sense of accomplishment I think
[10:39]<@BC_Programming> well yeah, but you can't aim for that one, really. for me that is really just a side bet
[10:41]<mib_g83fq7> what kind of advice would you give to a beginner like myself
[10:42]<@BC_Programming> sounds sort of pithy
[10:42]<@BC_Programming> but it's not really the goal you are after- it's the journey
[10:43]<@BC_Programming> I mean, the experience of writing the code is just as valuable as the end product. So just think of a fun project, and try to write it.
[10:44]<mib_g83fq7> that's good advice, thanks a lot
[10:44]<@BC_Programming> it's sort of vague though, I know
[10:45]<mib_g83fq7> no, it's good
[10:45]<@BC_Programming> or you can just think of a program you might find useful, as well
[10:45]<mib_g83fq7> for me I think I focus on having things done under my belt
[10:45]<mib_g83fq7> but it's not just about that
[10:46]<@BC_Programming> for example I also wrote a file search application because I didn't like the way The Windows XP search worked and presented it's results, and it didn't have enough flexibility in searching
[10:46]<@BC_Programming> and I still use it to this day occasionally
[10:46]<mib_g83fq7> that's really cool
[10:47]<@BC_Programming> and even so, I still am considering rewriting it!
[10:48]<@BC_Programming> simply because I enjoyed the experience of writing it the first time, and I'd like to do that again; since I changed programming languages as well it would still offer me some value experience-wise, too
[10:48]<mib_g83fq7> have you used actionscript
[10:48]<@BC_Programming> not heavily, and I think it was the old version
[10:48]<@BC_Programming> I do recall making a frogger game in flash Ages ago
[10:50]<mib_g83fq7> Rog told me how to change my nickname in coding cafe, I'm wondering if it works in here
[10:50] * mib_g83fq7 is now known as stillwire
[10:50]<stillwire> ah neat
[10:51]<stillwire> do I have to do that every time I come in
[10:51]<@BC_Programming> I think so if you use the ajax client
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[10:56]<@jacky> !say *irc*
[10:56]<@jacky> !say hydrairc
[10:56]<@jacky> !say kvirc
[10:56]<@jacky> !say mirc
[10:56]<@jacky> 
[10:56]<@jacky> :)
[10:56]<@jacky> 
[11:03]<stillwire> nice
[11:04]<stillwire> I'm gonna get some lunch, thanks again
[11:04]<@jacky> visit anytime
[11:04]<@jacky> :)
[11:04]<stillwire> I'll probably be back later
[11:04]<stillwire> thanks BC_Programming
[11:04]<@BC_Programming> you're welcome :)
[11:04]<@jacky> and if you want to 'register' that nickname, that's easy too
[11:04]<stillwire> how do I do that
[11:05]<@jacky> just don't ever ask BC about 'possums
[11:05]<@jacky> <g>
[11:05]<@BC_Programming> lol
[11:05]<stillwire> 8| what
[11:05]<@jacky> type: /msg nickserv help register to get brief help on it
[11:05]<@jacky> but, basically, you type /msg nickserv register <password> <email address> if I recall correctly
[11:05]<@jacky> the irc server emails you a confirmation code
[11:06]<stillwire> oh ok
[11:06]<@jacky> you follow the directions... bascially, type it in here
[11:06]<@jacky> and presto... your nick is "registered" to you, with a password
[11:06]<stillwire> ok, I'll check it out when I come back
[11:06]<@jacky> then, you can use Nickserv commands to protect it, etc., etc.
[11:06]<@jacky> use /msg nickserv help to get broad, general help on it
[11:06]<@jacky> then /msg nickserv help <command> to drill down
[11:07]<@jacky> see you later
[11:07]<@jacky> :)
[11:07]<stillwire> ok, later
[11:07]<@jacky> ( the possum thing is a long running joke... you'll see... someday. heeheheh )
[11:08]<stillwire> :D I can only imagine
[11:09]<@jacky> bet you can't
[11:09]<@jacky> heheeh
[11:18]<+camerongray> Possums, bears, my little pony :P
[11:20]<@jacky> I'm waiting for, "My Littel 'Possum"
[11:20]<@jacky> heh
[11:20]<@jacky> Little*
[11:25]<+camerongray> hahaha
[11:25]<+camerongray> Oh yeh - My friend was trying to download a MLP wallpaper at school and the site was blocked for nudity :P
[11:25]<+camerongray> I mean, the ponies don't have clothes but still
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[12:56]<@jacky> be back later
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[15:46]<Tux2> morning BC_Programming
[15:47]<@BC_Programming> sup tux2
[15:47]<@BC_Programming> here's something interesting
[15:47]<Tux2> hmm?
[15:47]<Tux2> http://home.jrtechsupport.com:8100/shop/
[15:47]<@BC_Programming> I might be designing the website for a business :D
[15:47]<Tux2> nice!
[15:47]<@BC_Programming> for monah's
[15:47]<Tux2> really nice!
[15:48]<@BC_Programming> a hair salon, iirc, was just making sure my laptop had apache/php/mysql installed proper
[15:48]<Tux2> lol, okay
[15:48]<@BC_Programming> I haven't heard from them since they asked but I was thinking I may as well see what I can come up with for a basic layout
[15:49]<Tux2> Yeah
[15:49]<Tux2> Oh, we have a global shop now that is like 10x easier to use... :)
[15:49]<@BC_Programming> cool
[15:49]<Tux2> Yeah, I also made it so that you can't "sell" stuff while in the creative world...
[15:50]<Tux2> Imagine that on the economy...
[15:50]<@BC_Programming> haha yeah
[15:50]<Tux2> but yeah, it has a really nice web gui that you can see the current prices on things and who has the best price on the item you want to buy.
[15:53]<@BC_Programming> sweet
[15:53]<@BC_Programming> my 3 stacks of obsidian may be of some value, lol
[15:55]<Tux2> lol... put them on the market
[15:56]<@BC_Programming> yeah, next time I'm on
[15:56]<@BC_Programming> after locking all my chests, heehee
[15:56]<Tux2> http://home.jrtechsupport.com:8100/shop/
[15:56]<Tux2> lol, I have lwc and digilock, so if you have spout, it is easier to set up advanced protections
[15:57]<@BC_Programming> yep
[15:57]<@BC_Programming> well if I didn't have spout I wouldn't be able to play at all without doing some crazy jar-switching
[15:57]<@BC_Programming> thank goodness for that
[15:57]<Tux2> lol!
[15:57]<Tux2> That's why I made my jar switcher in the first place. ;)
[15:59]<@BC_Programming> yeah but I don't do it because it resets my achievements/stats and that annoys me
[15:59]<Tux2> ah...
[16:27]<@BC_Programming> "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln
[16:27]<@BC_Programming> lol
[18:24]<@BC_Programming> hmm... my ping to home.jrtechsupport.com is averaging 1 second :/
[18:27]<@BC_Programming> oh... nevermind so is my ping to bloody near everything else too :(
[18:27]<Tux2> lol
[18:27]<Tux2> I can't sell my cow spawner to the virtual shop....
[18:28]<@BC_Programming> heh
[18:28]<Tux2> even after putting in the correct damage value and EVERYTHING!
[18:28]<@BC_Programming> what is the spoutcraft way to lock chests anyway
[18:28]<@BC_Programming> I was using /cprivate
[18:29]<Tux2> press "l"
[18:29]<Tux2> while looking at a chest
[18:29]<@BC_Programming> ahh ok
[18:29]<@BC_Programming> I was trying l while I had the chest open :S
[18:29]<Tux2> yeah, that uses digilock
[18:30]<Tux2> especially handy when you have people wondering how to add people and stuff and are too lazy to figure out the huge command for doing so...
[18:44]<@BC_Programming> ok how the heck do I make a subdomain that redirects to my home IP?
[18:50]<@BC_Programming> dammit...
[18:50]<@BC_Programming> now I have to wait for the DNS change to filter through the interwebs
[18:50]<Tux2> dyndns
[18:51]<@BC_Programming> dyndns?
[18:51]<Tux2> if you want it to auto update...
[18:51]<@BC_Programming> no... I want a subdomain of bc-programming.com to redirect to my IP
[18:51]<Tux2> otherwise just set a really low expire time...
[18:51]<@BC_Programming> my IP hasn't changed in three years, so... yeah
[18:51]<Tux2> lol...
[18:56]<@BC_Programming> well the DNS zone is there, and it's not working. guess I'll try in a few hours.
[18:59]<Tux2> ugh... why do people think they can just create new accounts to make it seem like there's more of them: http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/edit-monsterbox-v0-4-change-any-placed-monster-spawners-type-1185-1240.20098/page-4#post-736403
[18:59]<Tux2> I answered the SAME question last page...
[19:00]<Tux2> I think it's the same guy too...
[19:00]<@BC_Programming> probably is
[19:06]<Tux2> lol, I just replied to him...
[19:06]<Tux2> "Changing 16 block limit = managed spawner.... maybe you missed my post on the last page but this is of a low priority to me right now as it adds overhead. In the meantime you can use:
[19:06]<Tux2> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/fi...7-8b-mob-spawners-become-tradable-1240.20854/ "
[19:07]<Tux2> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/fi...7-8b-mob-spawners-become-tradable-1240.20854/
[19:07]<Tux2> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/fix-misc-creaturebox-0-7-8b-mob-spawners-become-tradable-1240.20854/
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