03[19:40] * RedWulf (Mibbit@mib-9CA6DE39.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) has joined #glitchpc
[19:41] <RedWulf> hello>
[19:41] <&BC_Programming> greetings
[19:41] <Mulreay> RedWulf hello
[19:41] <RedWulf> hey
[19:41] <RedWulf> im here to learn i guess.
[19:41] <Mulreay> damn you quick fingered master mind
[19:41] <RedWulf> bout computer theory'
[19:42] <Mulreay> RedWulf really?
[19:43] <RedWulf> yh
[19:43] <Mulreay> what you wanna know RedWulf?
[19:44] <RedWulf> how to compat viruses
[19:44] <RedWulf> with things like regedit and cmd.exe as well as how they work
[19:44] <RedWulf> how can someone in china just walk into my computer amazes me
[19:44] <RedWulf> but i dont know were to look to learn
[19:45] <RedWulf> library has 800 page books that are just mumbo jumbo
[19:45] <Mulreay> Not sure what you want
[19:45] <&BC_Programming> regedit and cmd have nothing to do with viruses
[19:45] <RedWulf> guess i am just asking were do i start... to learn bout viruses
[19:46] <&BC_Programming> you meant to say, "combat" not "compat" I'm guessing
[19:46] <RedWulf> yh lol
02[19:46] * hello2u (WillieTheF@mib-4B5689F1.res.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: "Too Err is Human, to Arr is Pirate" - Unknown)
[19:47] <RedWulf> well what are cmd.exe and regedit good for?
[19:47] <Mulreay> ?? really?
[19:47] <&BC_Programming> cmd is good for command prompt
[19:47] <&BC_Programming> regedit is good for editing the registry
[19:47] <RedWulf> yh duh
[19:47] <RedWulf> whats point of both those
[19:47] <Mulreay> sigh
[19:47] <&BC_Programming> wether they apply to a specific virus-related situation depends on the situation
[19:47] <&BC_Programming> it's like asking what a scalpel is good for
[19:47] <RedWulf> mmhmm
[19:48] <&BC_Programming> it's good for a lot of things
[19:48] <&BC_Programming> mostly it's used for surgery, but I'm sure you could slice pie with it if necessary
[19:48] <Mulreay> or a bullet
[19:48] <RedWulf> ok give me a scenario that i culd use registry for
[19:48] <&BC_Programming> storing data
[19:49] <Mulreay> You could stop your computer working...
[19:49] <RedWulf> hmm
[19:49] <&BC_Programming> oh you mean regedit, not registry
[19:49] <RedWulf> and y does it show binary
[19:49] <RedWulf> regedit yh
[19:50] <&BC_Programming> well a lot of trojans will put themselves in specific keys, if you know what they are you can remove them manually via regedit
[19:50] <&BC_Programming> Of course that is totally trivial since you can get programs that do the same thing a lot better anyway
[19:50] <RedWulf> trjans
[19:50] <RedWulf> ok
[19:50] <RedWulf> first what are all the types of malware
[19:50] <Mulreay> all?
[19:50] <RedWulf> virus trojan wurm ect and what do they do
[19:50] <RedWulf> well major types i mean
[19:51] <Mulreay> just malware will do and virus
[19:51] <RedWulf> oh ok lol
[19:51] <RedWulf> look.
[19:51] <RedWulf> how is it that someone can reach out and download or put a virus into my computer.. thats first step
[19:51] <Mulreay> at what?
[19:52] <RedWulf> at what?
[19:52] <&BC_Programming> nobody does that
[19:52] <RedWulf> elaborate
[19:52] <&BC_Programming> well, not as often as people like to think
[19:53] <&BC_Programming> nowadays the most common infection vector is trojans, which are just viruses disguised as a legitimate program
[19:54] <RedWulf> which is were i clik on a laced link like a landmine
[19:54] <&BC_Programming> once it's on your PC and you run it it doesn't matter what software solutions you have in place, because it can go right through them. Generally they will usually open some sort of backdoor so that their owner can send commands to them, as well as "phoning home" to their owner, usually through something like an IRC network
[19:55] <RedWulf> ok
[19:55] <RedWulf> so they can type commands into myh comp... i assume they have software for this
[19:55] <RedWulf> as well as syntax experience
[19:56] <&BC_Programming> No they can't "type commands into your comp" unless you already compromised yourself
[19:57] <&BC_Programming> and even then most trojans, about 90% of them, aren't connected to "hackers" or "crackers" in any way, and just install some affilate adware
[19:57] <Mulreay> Just to add that most software downloads these days are normally followed with an AV
[19:57] <RedWulf> ok
[19:57] <RedWulf> listen to this story
[19:57] <RedWulf> had an old comp that was abused
[19:58] <&BC_Programming> wow very insightful
[19:58] <&BC_Programming> lol
[19:58] <RedWulf> one day i log on and all my favorite sights i log onto all time... game sights ebay and such are jammed. one site showd a weird web page when i typed in my game site www. and it showd "YOU were hacked hahahahah"
[19:59] <&BC_Programming> was it hahahahah or did it end with an a
[19:59] <&BC_Programming> this is important
[19:59] <RedWulf> LOL
[19:59] <RedWulf> dunno
[19:59] <RedWulf> but how on earth does someone do that
[19:59] <&BC_Programming> ok because when it ends with an h that's the signature of the famous PossumBoy hacker
[20:00] <Mulreay> lol
[20:00] <&BC_Programming> it's always four "ha"s with a single h on the end
[20:01] <Mulreay> I F'ing hate the possumBoy... he's had me twice with, he calls bear viruses... DAM HIM
[20:01] <RedWulf> lol no its now
[20:01] <&BC_Programming> as opposed to yesterday
[20:01] <RedWulf> it had a picture of a guy with scare on face a pugy shaved kid
[20:01] <RedWulf> it was elaborate
[20:01] <RedWulf> but ok... once this happens how do i fix it
[20:02] <&BC_Programming> well the only sure way is a clean reinstall
[20:02] <RedWulf> f dat
[20:02] <RedWulf> how bout a solution with class lol
[20:02] <RedWulf> like hackers in the movies
[20:02] <RedWulf> lol
[20:03] <RedWulf> they type mumbo commands and boom. there done
[20:03] <Mulreay> yeah :p
[20:03] <&BC_Programming> yes and in the movies you can upload an AppleBasic virus to an alien mothership. It's hardly what I'd call a accurate representation of reality
[20:04] <RedWulf> lol well this possumboy does it
[20:04] <Tux2> lol, most computer people will reinstall a computer if it gets hit with a virus that leaves stuff behind the AV can't take care of.
[20:04] <Mulreay> possumboy is more basic
[20:04] <&BC_Programming> yeah he's more a script kiddie
[20:04] <Mulreay> lol
[20:04] <Tux2> He probably just edited your hosts file.
[20:04] <RedWulf> there was a kid in my class who bypassed the skool game block without a proxy he said he "hacked" a french guys comp and used it to surf web using his IP
[20:04] <&BC_Programming> he rides in the pouch of more experienced programmers who write tools that he uses
[20:05] <RedWulf> oh lol
[20:05] <&BC_Programming> RedWulf: there was a fat kid in my class who said he wasn't fat
[20:05] <&BC_Programming> nobody believed him
[20:05] <&BC_Programming> because he was clearly lying
[20:05] <Tux2> By proxy he probably meant a webpage, not a true proxy...
[20:05] <RedWulf> but he got past all school web blocks i watched em log into his comp
[20:05] <&BC_Programming> but when you can't see the fat, you wouldn't know that, just like if you can't tell the difference between command prompt and "regedit" you wouldn't know wether a "hacker" was talking out of his ass or wether he was teh real deal
[20:06] <&BC_Programming> and guess what
[20:06] <&BC_Programming> "real" hackers that know what they are doing
[20:06] <&BC_Programming> DON'T TELL PEOPLE!
[20:06] <@ChanbotII> BC_Programming : Warning: You've triggered caps flood protection, release your caps.
[20:06] <&BC_Programming> so there's your first clue
[20:06] <Mulreay> RedWulf possumboy kinda just hangs on to the front of you, then after a time he just leaves the mothership and goes about his business... but he does take stuff with him
[20:06] <&BC_Programming> he tried to take my codez once
[20:06] <Tux2> RedWulf, he probably used a program like logmein or teamviewer to do that...
[20:07] <RedWulf> and these are like prerit programs just like itunes only diff purpose?
[20:07] * DarkPhantom[mobile] (DarkPhanto@mib-F054CFD4.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) has joined #glitchpc
[20:08] <&BC_Programming> not quite but that's close enough for government work
[20:08] <Mulreay> Possumboy is the one to watch for... damn that had me with stuff all over me for atleast a month... then the files just left of there own accord
[20:08] <&BC_Programming> Possumboy is a file scavenger you see, he goes around looking for files to add to his hoard
[20:08] <Mulreay> wb DarkPhantom[mobile]
[20:09] <DarkPhantom[mobile]> Thank you
[20:09] <&BC_Programming> and if you catch him, he'll simply stop... and play dead
[20:09] <RedWulf> files? like credit cards?
[20:09] <&BC_Programming> no
[20:09] <&BC_Programming> he took copies of my autoexec.bat
[20:09] <Mulreay> damn it's harsh when he plays dead... you can't find the <censored>
[20:09] <@ChanbotII> Mulreay : Warning: You've triggered swearing protection, cussing is prohibited.
[20:09] <&BC_Programming> and he duplicated them like 10 times
[20:09] <&BC_Programming> so I had to take like a full minute deleting them
[20:10] <RedWulf> autoexec.bat whats that?
[20:10] <&BC_Programming> it's a file
[20:10] <&BC_Programming> and then he made copies of all my essays
[20:10] <&BC_Programming> and then deleted the copies, he was trying to confuse me, to try to mask what he was really taking
[20:10] <RedWulf> and flooded ur comp with compys
[20:10] <Mulreay> autoexec.bat whats that? see that's how the possum virus wins
[20:10] <RedWulf> like a prank
[20:10] <&BC_Programming> turns out he was after my duke maps
[20:11] <Mulreay> Damn that virus
[20:11] <&BC_Programming> thankfully I managed to get to the folder first, and copied autoexec.bat there 500 times with different names
[20:11] <&BC_Programming> and I renamed them to .MAP so he would think they were the map files he wanted
[20:12] <Mulreay> Problem with the virus is it pretends to be dead then BANG it comes back
[20:12] <&BC_Programming> then I didn't see him do anything for 5 hours and 53 minutes
[20:12] <&BC_Programming> then he struck
[20:12] <&BC_Programming> he placed copies of HIS autoexec.bat in my etc/bin folder!
[20:12] <&BC_Programming> oh the horror!
[20:12] <RedWulf> seeeee. how . with prerite programs?
[20:12] <&BC_Programming> yeah
[20:13] <RedWulf> hwo does someone do that
[20:13] <&BC_Programming> he used PossumWrite and PossumRead, see PossumBoy is actually sort of a cronie in a big hacker ring
[20:13] <&BC_Programming> they have 5 members that I've been able to figure out
[20:13] <RedWulf> wow
[20:13] <&BC_Programming> PossumBoy is their front man- a sort of kiddie slave that will take the rap if anything goes wrong
[20:14] <RedWulf> its just like... what if someone took em down ruined there comps. blew there covers
[20:14] <RedWulf> wouldnt it be not only heroic but funny as heck
[20:14] <&BC_Programming> he uses tools written by somebody who from what I can tell calls himself "Possumman"
[20:14] <Mulreay> No no to grepping and possumman
[20:14] <&BC_Programming> but I'm not sure if he's like PossumBoy's dad or something
[20:14] <&BC_Programming> the ring-leader, the guy who calls the shots is BigBear765
[20:15] <RedWulf> were do u find them
[20:15] <&BC_Programming> well see they copied their autoexec.bat files to my etc/bin folder rite
[20:15] <&BC_Programming> so I looked inside
[20:16] <&BC_Programming> and I was able to reverse mask their DNS lookups to ascertain their IPs
[20:16] <&BC_Programming> then I just did a inverse whois table lookup on their subnet masks
[20:16] <&BC_Programming> and I got their MSN account names
[20:16] <&BC_Programming> so, I'm not 100% if that's the names they actually use all the time
[20:17] <&BC_Programming> because it was more or less just the e-mail address I was able to reverse
[20:17] <RedWulf> wow
[20:18] <RedWulf> so a hackers technique... they just lace a link with a virus that comands ur comp around letting them in... then they download surf and search whatever they want?
[20:18] <&BC_Programming> I tried to get into their secret IRC channel once, but they found out it it was me and copied their CONFIG.SYS to my etc/bin, which gave them control over my notepad you see
[20:19] <RedWulf> just ur notepad?
[20:19] <&BC_Programming> yeah
[20:19] <&BC_Programming> thankfully
[20:19] <RedWulf> wow
[20:19] <RedWulf> i just got this crazy idea u know that i been thinkn bout
[20:19] <RedWulf> what if we killd em... not realy but in cyberworld
[20:20] <RedWulf> found there main hack methods and locations and sent viruses to them
[20:20] <&BC_Programming> we'd need to get that really expensive matrix computer bio-nemetic interface
[20:20] <RedWulf> like do these guys have like homemade supercomputers
[20:21] <RedWulf> lol BC
[20:21] <&BC_Programming> hard to say
[20:21] <RedWulf> not funny
[20:21] <RedWulf> hmm
[20:21] <&BC_Programming> we'd have to kill their Asheron's Call characters
[20:21] <&BC_Programming> once we do that the entire cookie crumbles so to speak
[20:21] <&BC_Programming> because they trade online in WOW gold
[20:22] <RedWulf> whats asherons?
[20:22] <RedWulf> lol
[20:22] <&BC_Programming> it's a online game, after I hacked into their IRC channel they moved to a more public area
[20:22] <&BC_Programming> so that nobody would suspect
[20:22] <&BC_Programming> so instead of conversing in a secret IRC channel, they just meet somewhere in the game world
[20:22] <&BC_Programming> and then they trade their WOW gold
[20:23] <RedWulf> like u seen the matrix in that part were neo is sitting at comp and then people nok on door and buy that floppy disc... that just had virus tools and software/
[20:23] <RedWulf> wow thats crazy
[20:23] <&BC_Programming> yah it just had DOS 3.1 and Norton
[20:23] <RedWulf> lol
[20:23] <&BC_Programming> srsly DOS 3.1 is like the hackers choice
[20:23] <RedWulf> what is it?
[20:24] <&BC_Programming> it's an OS
[20:24] <&BC_Programming> it's like Linux but it's not for noob hackers
[20:24] <&BC_Programming> it's for the really leet
[20:24] <RedWulf> leet?
[20:24] * Devil_Boy (devil@mib-14DFA16E.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #glitchpc
[20:24] <&BC_Programming> yeah hacker term, for like a super good hacker
[20:24] <RedWulf> wow
[20:24] <DarkPhantom[mobile]> I will be back in 10 minutes
02[20:25] * DarkPhantom[mobile] (DarkPhanto@mib-F054CFD4.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: used jmIrc)
[20:25] <Mulreay> cool
[20:25] <RedWulf> ok so likei hearda keyloggers and that just a virus that downloads from a bad link and then sends all typoing to hackers comp right?
[20:25] <&BC_Programming> pretty much
[20:25] <RedWulf> hmm
[20:26] <RedWulf> so hacking isnt really that impressive... like just booby traps the most dificult thing is wrighting the virus
[20:26] <&BC_Programming> yeah
[20:26] <RedWulf> dude
[20:27] <RedWulf> thats kinda disapointing if i had training in comp prgraming itd still be harder just changing my cars spark plug all hackin takes is comp camand knowledge
[20:27] <&BC_Programming> yeah they just have to memorize the DOS 3.1 syntax
[20:28] <RedWulf> well i guess to get back to points
[20:28] <RedWulf> how do i find viruses in regedit
[20:28] <RedWulf> any programs on my comp will be there if its functioning right?
[20:28] <&BC_Programming> you gotta search in your registry for etc/bin
[20:29] <RedWulf> ect/bin?
[20:29] <&BC_Programming> if that doesn't come up with anything, you might want to search for "wow gold" see hackers make their money buy trading WOW gold
[20:29] <&BC_Programming> no etc/bin
[20:29] <&BC_Programming> ect/bin is for videos
[20:29] <RedWulf> its a part of pragram name or syntax?
[20:29] <&BC_Programming> no you just search in regedit
[20:29] <&BC_Programming> using the find tool
[20:30] <RedWulf> ok
[20:30] <RedWulf> how do i tell freind from foe?
[20:30] <&BC_Programming> well any key you find that contains the words wow gold are bad
[20:31] <RedWulf> and its like wtf World of warcraft gold thats the big pay off... no million dolar govt hack a frigin wow gold wtf
[20:31] <RedWulf> lol
[20:31] <&BC_Programming> yeah
[20:31] <&BC_Programming> see wow gold is easier to trade
[20:31] <&BC_Programming> since they don't need to set up any way of laundering the money
[20:31] <RedWulf> yh but theres sure to be lots of smaller viruses that have other names
[20:32] <RedWulf> wire transfers?
[20:32] <&BC_Programming> like they would for real funds
[20:32] <RedWulf> u cant eat at red lobster with wow gold
[20:32] <&BC_Programming> of course not
[20:32] <&BC_Programming> but you can after a while sell it to others
[20:32] <&BC_Programming> that's why you see spam and ads on forums for wow gold
[20:32] <&BC_Programming> it's hackers trying to sell their stolen WOW gold
[20:33] <RedWulf> so we would have to find hundred or thousands of people willing to buy wow gold from a hacker... thats stupid
[20:33] <RedWulf> there has to be a better pay off
[20:33] <&BC_Programming> you'd be surprised
[20:33] <RedWulf> theres no motive
[20:33] <&BC_Programming> there are a lot of people that buy wow gold, because they don't know it's hot
[20:33] <RedWulf> consumers from hackers survices are all wow players not billionare anarchists so theres no payoff
[20:34] <&BC_Programming> yeah but when you have hundreds of thousands of WOW players buying gold, that's a lot
[20:34] <RedWulf> i guess
[20:34] <&BC_Programming> and since they pretty much hack themselves the gold they didn't really have to spend anything themselves
[20:34] <RedWulf> so if ur a hacker ur not a milllionare right?
[20:35] <&BC_Programming> some hackers are really successful, like BigBear765
[20:35] <RedWulf> mmhmm
[20:35] <&BC_Programming> that's how they start the hacker rings
[20:36] <&BC_Programming> se BigBear765 was one of the pioneers of the Wow Gold Hacker front, see before that, they were just running around in the games actually looting corpses to get the WOW gold to sell
[20:36] <RedWulf> but its like this super hacker villians worst crim is hacking wow. thats retarted i could think of way beter things. like u could work for a chop shop and change registration of cars so its not stolen as listed by the computer data files
[20:36] <&BC_Programming> but they kept getting banned and it was a lot of work
[20:37] <RedWulf> so its true... if u play wow u either play it... ur a hacker... and most likely have no life
[20:37] <&BC_Programming> so they developed tools to make it so they can get into other peoples PCs and get their WOW gold, by getting their WOW game passwords... and then they logon to their game and send their gold to a middleman
[20:37] <&BC_Programming> the middleman buys a bunch of equipment and stuff, so that there is no longer any actual gold
[20:38] <&BC_Programming> and then they go to another shop and sell the eq, so that it's harder to trace where the persons gold went
[20:38] <RedWulf> like u ever hear of the huge hacker law cases were some 15 year old kid hacked a huge company and coulda wire transfered millions
[20:38] <&BC_Programming> then they take it back to bigbear, who sells the Wow gold through forum spam and stuff and then he gives them all a cut of the profits
[20:39] <RedWulf> wow
[20:39] <RedWulf> thats alota effort
[20:39] <RedWulf> pays off but its so
[20:39] <RedWulf> so
[20:39] <RedWulf> just
[20:39] <RedWulf> pathetic
[20:39] <&BC_Programming> it's a lot of effort for the worlers
[20:39] <&BC_Programming> bigbear just sits around
[20:39] <Mulreay> lol
[20:39] <&BC_Programming> the middlemen people are paid the cut to do all the legwork
[20:40] <&BC_Programming> and he get's PossumBoy and PossumMan to do the hacking
[20:40] <&BC_Programming> to get the accounts to siphon gold from
[20:40] <RedWulf> u think theyd work for osama bin ladin gettin paid solid gold statues and such
[20:40] <&BC_Programming> yeah, but the media overglorifies it
[20:40] <RedWulf> this is profitable enough to live on?!?!? and y hasnt anyone caught them
[20:41] <&BC_Programming> yeah they probably have pretty big houses, well, at least bigbear would
[20:41] <RedWulf> wtf
[20:41] <RedWulf> that pisses me off
[20:41] <&BC_Programming> nobody has caught them because they are so devious, like I noted earlier, they actually talk about this on a completely different game, ASherons call
[20:41] <Mulreay> lol
[20:41] <RedWulf> they just sit around laundering wow gold wtf
[20:41] <&BC_Programming> otherwise the Wow moderators would be able to see them talking about their exploits to one another
[20:42] <&BC_Programming> yeah you'd think they would just get a real job or smth
[20:42] <&BC_Programming> make an honest living
[20:42] <RedWulf> its not like these are devious supervillains hackers they are just WOW nerds and mmo geeks
[20:42] <&BC_Programming> yep
[20:43] <RedWulf> wtf if u could see the look on my face ud be like wow...lets take a picture and make it the definition of disapointmant
[20:43] <&BC_Programming> yeah it's best not to think about it
[20:44] <RedWulf> there not even supervillains no wonder CIA hasnt found em they are frigin harmless nerds
[20:44] <&BC_Programming> yeah because if somebody logs into their Wow account and finds they are missing gold, it's not as big an issue as say going to their bank and finding they have no funds
[20:44] <RedWulf> lol i came into here to learn bout cyberworld and its basicly all revolving around frigin World of Warcraft
[20:44] <&BC_Programming> I mean they aren't going to call the cops and say "somebody stole my wow gold"
[20:45] <RedWulf> tru
[20:45] <RedWulf> lol
[20:45] <RedWulf> so
[20:45] <RedWulf> how do u find him
[20:45] <RedWulf> how do u find bigbear and sell him the gold
[20:46] <&BC_Programming> it's not too hard, but you have to find a forum where he spams
[20:46] <&BC_Programming> that's pretty much any forum really
[20:46] <RedWulf> if cyberwolrd is so abstract and WOW based how do u find em
[20:46] <RedWulf> wow
[20:46] <RedWulf> thats like just dude wow
[20:46] <RedWulf> :(
[20:46] <&BC_Programming> yeah he has a lot of middlemen that spam forums, too, he just sends them out to like spam with "buy WOW gold" spam
[20:47] <&BC_Programming> but mods at forums will delete it rather quickly, since it's spam rite
[20:47] <RedWulf> hmm
[20:47] <RedWulf> so in reality hes just a programmer
[20:47] <&BC_Programming> nobody really knows
[20:47] <RedWulf> lol
[20:48] <&BC_Programming> there are rumours that he's just a computer AI, bent on revenge, but that's pretty silly
[20:48] <RedWulf> lol
[20:48] <RedWulf> now thats worth talkin bout... not sum shmuck who just hacks WOW
[20:48] * DarkPhantom (darkphanto@mib-F054CFD4.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) has joined #glitchpc
[20:49] <RedWulf> i just thought of like batman hacking into fbi to check into suspects or phyco killers finding targets via hacking there computers
[20:49] <RedWulf> or i heard that gov't cant turn web cam on or computer on so it will listen to whats going on
[20:50] <&BC_Programming> naw webcams don't have speakers so that wouldn't work
[20:51] <RedWulf> no but in news they said unless phone batter is out
[20:51] <RedWulf> (hence no batery suypply
[20:51] <RedWulf> )
[20:51] <RedWulf> govt"t can hack it and make it sort of call them and they can listen with the phone
[20:51] <&BC_Programming> phone battery? I thought you were saying webcams?
[20:51] <&BC_Programming> oh phone
[20:51] <&BC_Programming> ok
[20:51] <&BC_Programming> well I suppose that would work
[20:51] <RedWulf> just more programing
[20:52] <&BC_Programming> It's hard to say what's not possible these days
[20:52] <&BC_Programming> what with 9/11 and Robot sex toys and all
[20:52] <RedWulf> its like are computers so stupid that if a computer program tells it to send all files to me itl work
[20:52] <RedWulf> lol BC
[20:52] <Mulreay> perpetual motion?
[20:52] <&BC_Programming> RedWulf: yes
[20:52] <RedWulf> hmm
[20:53] <&BC_Programming> the question of wether computers can think is like the question of wether submarines can swim
[20:53] <RedWulf> good points
[20:53] <RedWulf> point*